Rapper O.D.B. collapses and dies in studio

Wu-Tang founding member's strange death

Published on November 14, 2004 By historyishere In Music

Ol' Dirty Bastard AKA Dirt McGirt AKA Big Baby Jesus AKA Russell Jones, his real name died on Saturday after complaining of chest pains while at a studio in NY. He had recently gotten out of prison, and he was at work on his new album, a project he had been working on for a year.

Personally, I loved "Baby I got your money," and I was sort of surprised to see that he had died, because he was keeping sort of a low profile as of late. I know he had problems, and he was... sort of erratic, but the way he died just seems very odd. It was not the way I expected him to pass.

He would have been 36 on Monday....

Comments

mada_ecks

on Nov 14, 2004

It's a tragic loss to the music community. O.D.B. was one of the driving forces behind the Wu-tang clan. His music was a bit out there, but he was one of hip hop's true artist. The Wu-Tang clan have a lot of talented members, but Ol' Dirty will be missed. I can't imagine the Clan without O.D.B.

historyishere

on Nov 14, 2004

Its hard to imagine Hip-Hop without O.D.B.

Rightwinger

on Nov 18, 2004

Its hard to imagine Hip-Hop without O.D.B.

I can't imagine the Clan without O.D.B.

He always seemed to be in prison......when did he have time to make music?

Sorry...didn't mean to speak ill of the dead.

Another one bites the dust

on Nov 22, 2004

YEs dead at last
Now if only snoop dog and that 50 cent character would kill over
maybe that emm and emm idiot...
rap is crap and the more of them that die off the better

dharmagrl

on Nov 22, 2004

rap is crap and the more of them that die off the better

Now there's an interesting, unbiased point of view......

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone said 'symphony is crap and the more violinists that die off the better'.....

Rightwinger

on Nov 22, 2004

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone said 'symphony is crap and the more violinists that die off the better'.....

When's the last time a symphony violinist died in a drive-by perpetrated by other violinists over a feud between E. Coast and W. Coast violinists?
When's the last time you saw an award show featuring symphony violinists erupt into mayhem where weapons are drawn because of hard feelings between the violinists?

Rap is Crap, but for reasons other than its (lack of) musical value. "White musicians don't fight like black musicians-----you never hear about Kenny Rogers trying to off Garth Brooks!"---Chris Rock

historyishere

on Nov 22, 2004

hen's the last time you saw an award show featuring symphony violinists erupt into mayhem where weapons are drawn because of hard feelings between the violinists?

So any event that breaks out in violence invalidates the entire class of music?

Rightwinger

on Nov 22, 2004

Rap music has a long history of petty feuds and violence.
It's the only form of music in which the performers openly disrespect, fight with and often try (and sometimes succeed) to kill, each other. Yes, for this, and for other, more stylistic reasons, I consider it an invalid form of music.

historyishere

on Nov 22, 2004

Well, by these arguments let's invalidate other forms of music.

Classical music has caused riots(The 1913 premiere of The Rite of Spring comes to mind), and country, rock and punk music have all produced legendary feuds, some resulting in murder... so Rap/Hip Hop is not the only form of music in which performers openly disrespect and fight with each other on a regular basis.

Yes, for this, and for other, more stylistic reasons, I consider it an invalid form of music.

Which is an argument that was used against Jazz, Rock N' Roll and even some forms of early secular instrumental music... all forms which are accepted today....

Rightwinger

on Nov 22, 2004

punk

You think punk, as it was back then, is still a viable form of music? The days of the Sex Pistols are gone. Long gone.

and country, rock and punk music have all produced legendary feuds, some resulting in murder... so Rap/Hip Hop is not the only form of music in which performers openly disrespect and fight with each other on a regular basis.

But it IS the only form of music in which the performers make it a part of the genre......those other "feuds" were abberations.
With rap, such misbehavior is not only accepted, but promoted and even utilized for its publicity value. This is irresponsible at the very least.

Why I do not feel that rap is a viable music form:
Rythmic cursing into a microphone, set to a thumping, bass-heavy beat, is not music.
How many of them have even bothered to learn how to play instruments? (of course, this never hurt the early punks....inability to play was seen as a virtue back then)
Most of them do not write their own music; they write words. These words are then frequently set over a "sample" chord or riff taken from the work of some other, better musician or group. They then make their own song out of it.
Is this musicianship? No. I'll give them that they know how to manipulate editing equipment, but that's all.

historyishere

on Nov 23, 2004

You think punk, as it was back then, is still a viable form of music? The days of the Sex Pistols are gone. Long gone.

You will notice I said produceD... in the past tense....

With rap, such misbehavior is not only accepted, but promoted and even utilized for its publicity value. This is irresponsible at the very least.

Tell that to Toby Keith, The Dixie Chicks, Britney, Christina, Lindsay, Hillary, Blur, Oasis... all heavily promoted.... and I am just scratching the surface here....

How many of them have even bothered to learn how to play instruments?

How many singers can't play instruments as a random sample of all genres.... I wager quite a few.

Most of them do not write their own music; they write words.

A lot of "musicians" don't even do even write their own words.... especially when you look at a lot of the music from the 50's-60's, especially from labels like Motown and such, so holding these artists to a different standard is not really fair.

These words are then frequently set over a "sample" chord or riff taken from the work of some other, better musician or group. They then make their own song out of it.

So any artist who does anything like that is not an artist? Well, let's kick out Shakespeare, T.S. Eliot, James Joyce, Salvador Dali, Charles Ives, John Milton, half the people who ever EVER made a movie, and nearly any architect from the 17th century onward from the annals of "artists" then.

Is this musicianship? No. I'll give them that they know how to manipulate editing equipment, but that's all.

From the dictionary.com's first definition of "music".

The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.

which doesn't seem to disqualify hip-hop music by your definition.....

Rightwinger

on Nov 23, 2004

Oh......you wound me.

Tell that to Toby Keith, The Dixie Chicks, Britney, Christina, Lindsay, Hillary, Blur, Oasis... all heavily promoted.... and I am just scratching the surface here....

Do any of those artists take part in violent behavior against other artists? Not that I've ever heard of.
The voicing of opinions, even boisterously, is one thing....open conflict resulting in bodily injury is quite another. Also, none of those artists proudly points to their poor behavior as examples of their "street cred" the way rappers do.

How many singers can't play instruments as a random sample of all genres.... I wager quite a few

Hm..okay, I'll cede you this point, but with a caveat....any performer who can't play even one instrument isn't much of one, too me.

I'll cede you this one, too, but with the same caveat, more or less; I have a lot more respect for performers who write and sing their own material. There are a few exceptions; Elvis, Sinatra, Dean Martin...I love those guys.

I'm not talking about borrowing "styles". I'm talking about taking THE ACTUAL WORK....the chord, the words, whatever...of some other artist and making your own song out of it. That doesn't require much effort OR musicianship. If they did that in school, they'd get an "F" for plagiarism.

Look, I don't know from "art"...all I know is that when I hear a chord from some favorite song of mine shoved ungraciously into a rap song that slurs it with sexually explicit and/or violent lyrics, it grates on my nerves. That's what bothers me about rap.....the lack of creativity in it.

I give them credit for being able to rap.....that takes a lot of skill that I'll never have. But why do they need the sexually explicit and violent language used?
Musicians for centuries have found ways to refer to sex without actually mentioning it.....Garth Brooks, for example, sang about how he and his woman "really fit together, if you know what I mean...." The Stones wanted to "Spend the night together"...we all knew what they were going to do, but they never came out and said it.
For rappers, that's too much work. They just cut to the chase and plainly say what they mean, to the detriment of entire generations of fans.

And when rappers use actual sampled lyrics in their songs.....Eminem's use of Aerosmith's "Dream on," for example....that's just out and out laziness.
If they wanted to make an homage to a favorite song or something, fine.....rewrite the song as a rap (Dolly Parton did this in excellent fashion when she rewrote "Stairway to Heaven" as a bluegrass tune). RunDMC did it, ironically enough, with Aerosmith's "Walk this Way". They did it as a rap song, and even included Aerosmith in the making of it and the video. But that was back before the Gansta shit started to creep in, when rap, and rappers themselves, had more class.
But you know...let another artist take a rap song and make their own, and the rappers don't like it one little bit. On case that leaps to mind is "Amish Paradise" by Weird Al Yankovic. He took it, of course, from Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise". Coolio loudly and publicly threatened Weird Al, even with bodily harm, for having the nerve to "dis" his song, but, as Al's manager pointed out, this "didn't stop him from cashing the royalties check when we sent it to him."

I like old school rap....Sugar Hill Gang, RunDMC, Fat Boyz....and I do like Will Smith. He samples, too, but he's at least clever with his lyrics.

historyishere

on Nov 23, 2004

Oh......you wound me.

Well, good discussions usually have that effect

Also, none of those artists proudly points to their poor behavior as examples of their "street cred" the way rappers do.

But these artists use that publicity as a gimmick to sell more records.... they may not "proudly" point to their actions(though Ms. Love still looks back fondly at punching K. Hanna in the head), I think the whole feud system is becoming a more and more viable publicity machine for artists. I am willing to concede a point about the sexuality of rap lyrics, but on the question of violence, other forms of music have lyrics which I would say match hip hop ones point for point.

And I am talking about taking another persons work... for example, Dali was famously taken to court and LOST for this work.

But that was back before the Gansta shit started to creep in, when rap, and rappers themselves, had more class.

For the record, I am not the hugest fan of hip-hop/rap there is... but I respect it for what it is... but yes, Gansta Rap as a subgenre really kicked it up a notch. And I am willing to concede that there are quite a few people in hip-hop who are.... well, hacks who take WAY too much without adding a lot(P. Diddy comes to mind), but there are other artists who put out interesting work which I would have a hard time denying are very artistically arranged and masterfully performed. I can see some common ground between us here RW, but we are seeming to disagree about some of the particulars.

Rightwinger

on Nov 23, 2004

I can see some common ground between us here RW, but we are seeming to disagree about some of the particulars.

Yes, but that's one of the things I like about JU. I think we both made our points pretty well.

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