A little bit weird, a little bit political with a lot of humor.
Its a rather slippery slope
Published on October 8, 2004 By historyishere In History

While I was writing this article, I had a hard time thinking of what category I was going to put it in.... I mean, it is political in a way, and it is also going to be historical or gaming related... but in the end, I decided that this was a bit more philosophical in nature. However, I think Misc. might serve this best .. but I am undecided about that at the moment, so the category might change.

EDIT: Welcome to the history category!

I began asking myself when a draw really is a draw and not victory, based on my recent experiences playing Steel Panthers: World at War and SP: Main Battle Tank. You see, I had just got through fighting a couple of "Draws".... one theoretical battle between Belgium and the Netherlands in 1947, and another a December 1975 battle in West Germany between W. German and French forces and the mighty tanks of the East German army. Now, in all fairness, I technically lost these two battles... I scored less points, I took generally heavier losses, and at the end of these battles, I held less victory points/territory.... but at the same time, I also sort of won them as well. I had inferior forces, both in numbers and quality of arms and troops, and yet, I was still able to hurt the enemy in both battles enough that they stalled in their attack/counterattack.... and I was still able to maintain some measure on territorial integrity on at least one part of the front line and protect an objective and route of escape. By those terms, I performed admirably under tough circumstances.

Historically, there are many examples of the "winning" draw or loss... like the Tet Offensive... technically, it was a tactical loss for the Vietcong, with all 150+ different targets eventually pushing back the incursion. However politically, it became a victory for them, as the television cameras reported the carnage and helped to further galvanize more of the American public against the war, and considering it was 1968, an election year, that political victory was much more palpable. The WW I Battle of Jutland is also considered a draw with both the Germans and British claiming victory, although despite the Royal Navy's substantial losses in the battle, the Kaiserliche Marine never ventured out of their harbors for the rest of the war. 

I also vaguely remember that after the first Presidential debate, a lot of people were calling it a draw, which meant that John Kerry did a lot better than was expected. So it is technically it could have been called a victory for him (though many other people also have called it that without the qualifier). Of course, there aren't really tie-breakers in the American electoral system, which is a shame really. 

I think the basic message I am trying to convey is, if you play or fight against an opponent that outmatches you in almost every way(or supposedly so), and you somehow manage to either fight to a stalemate or generally cause your enemy to achieve at best a Pyrrhic victory, then couldn't that be considered "good enough"? As a novice chess player, if you put a grandmaster on the ropes for a while, wouldn't that be far more than could ever be expected of you, and as such, wouldn't that be not a demoralizing loss, rather an ego-boost to say the least. Or on the battlefield... if a force armed with early 20th century weaponry was able to delay an advancing technologically superior army for days or weeks, even if they eventually lose the battle, could that not be declared a victory for the eventually defeated forces? Or what if a third-party was to achieve 10% of the popular vote in the upcoming elections? Technically, they would have lost the election, but as a third-party, wouldn't that be a victory too? Wouldn't 10% have meaning?


Comments
on Oct 09, 2004
I think it depends on how your performance affect the big picture in the end or your overall objective.

If you lost a battle but your objective was merely to delay or weaken the enemy while you plan to attack from another front, then even if you lost the battle, you would have 'won'. I am sure that there is in history, generals who gave it their all to win a battle, only to lose to the war (as the saying goes) because after that, they just don't have enough to continue after losing to so much just to secure that one victory.
on Oct 09, 2004
I am sure that there is in history, generals who gave it their all to win a battle, only to lose to the war (as the saying goes) because after that, they just don't have enough to continue after losing to so much just to secure that one victory.


Pyrrus knows exactly what you mean....

"A formidable and courageous general, Pyrrus was enlisted by the Greek cities of southern Italy to counter the increasingly powerful Romans. In 279 BC, his invading Greek forces met and defeated the Romans at the battle of Asculum in Apulia. The engagement was costly, however: Pyrrhus lost many men, several close associates, and all of his baggage. When one of his soldiers congratulated the king on his victory, he famously replied: "Another such victory and we are ruined!""

We all know that the Greeks eventually lost to the Romans, giving us the term Pyrrhic victory.... I think you could also call the American Civil War battle of Chancellorsville a Pyrrhic victory for the Confederacy as well, because in winning the battle, they accidentally lost one of their most skilled and daring generals, which changed the very nature of the war. Then again, the Civil War has many things that make it interesting in this discussion... particularly the fact the South was able to win some of their battles against 3:1 odds.

In the SP:MBT battle, I would imagine that after holding back the East Germans, NATO troops would have been sent in to fight a Warsaw Pact coalition.... I lost it 2903 to 2094.
on Oct 13, 2004
I was having a conversation with someone a few days ago while we were playing a game, and an additional point came to me....

An outmatched opponent, if they achieve a draw or close loss might be left with the feeling that their insurmountable opponent might actually be able to be beaten, and as such, that alone might have power.

Sort of like when Rocky made Drago bleed in Rocky IV... it showed him that he was vulnerable, that he could be hurt and beaten in that long drawn out fight.
on Oct 14, 2004
It's a personal victory. I felt that way before when playing against opponent who are more experienced than me, when I get a draw or a borderline loss. It's a matter of time, they always tell me, just keep playing and you'll soon be able to win some battles and learn his favorite moves and habits.
on Oct 14, 2004
you'll soon be able to win some battles and learn his favorite moves and habits.


I was reading this book by Bevin Alexander called "How Wars Are Won-The 13 Rules of War" that stated that often times, the first step to your own defeat is the adoption of your opponent's methods/tactics... because very rarely are you going to be able to use them as effectively as those who introduce them to you, which seems be counter to conventional wisdom, but he did give good examples to show that in fact this was more often than not the case. However, understanding your enemy's tactics and devising countertactics is an entirely different matter